Weekend Interview: Ingka Centres Managing Director Cindy Andersen On Retail Of The People, By The People, For The People

This series goes deep with some of the most compelling figures in commercial real estate: the deal-makers, the game-changers, the city-shapers and the larger-than-life personalities who keep CRE interesting.

Swedish retail giant Ikea remains best known for its huge out-of-town stores where customers can do anything from picking up a picture frame to equipping an entire apartment, all while enjoying some Swedish meatballs (meat- or plant-based).

But more recently, the retailer’s sister real estate business, Ingka Centres, has spearheaded a change in approach in Europe and the U.S., acquiring urban locations where smaller-format Ikea stores anchor what the company calls its Meeting Places. Even as retail real estate lost favor in some circles, Ingka has been investing big.

Ingka Centres are more community- and convenience-focused. These centres bring together not only retail but also the company’s Saluhall food hall concept and in some cases its Hej!Workshop coworking format, most recently opened with partner Industrious at its Market Street destination in San Francisco.

Under the leadership of Managing Director Cindy Andersen, Ingka Centres has more to come, with the company looking for sites in North America beyond its San Francisco debut and the addition of a mall in south coast English city Brighton to add to its initial centre in Hammersmith, west London.

Ingka Centres has also bought a mall in Paris and has an ambitious programme underway to develop larger Meeting Places in China and India.

Speaking with Bisnow, Andersen explained why Ingka Centres never had any doubt about backing physical retail real estate, even when money was moving out of malls, and explained how the company’s global footprint is evolving.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Bisnow: At a time when others were exiting malls and high streets, you started the process of buying urban assets to transform. What convinced you this was the right strategy?

Andersen: For us, it's underpinned with the belief that physical destinations are important and that people have a need to connect, to meet, to experience and actually be in a physical place. This is a strong complement to the digital development we've seen over the past few years, so for us it's not digital or physical because we have this fundamental belief that our strategy is geared towards customers.

During Covid, there were many question marks about what would happen with physical destinations. Will they still be relevant? We see now, post-pandemic, that we are recovering our visitor numbers. We are on target to be back at pre-pandemic visitor levels or even better.

It was important to go to where many people live and where they spend their time, and that also means developing this approach alongside the larger regional developments that we have ongoing such as in China and in India in 2025.

In one way, it makes sense because we also see an increasing urbanisation trend, with many people living in urban environments across the globe. So it's been a quite natural extension for us, of course always with an Ikea, going into that type of environment.

Bisnow: Ingka has chosen to take a very community-focused approach. Was this always the intention, and why did you come to this decision?

Andersen: Physical destinations remain relevant and important, but they also need to be adjusted, because it's not only about offering space. It is about offering relevance. 

If you develop content that is great for people, that is great for business. Being close to the needs and also the dreams of people living in proximity to our Meeting Places means that is also complementing the community where we are operating. So that has been the essence of our strategy, and I think this is one of the benefits from being part of a group like Ikea where we also have a retail mindset whatever we do, and that's why the community is so important.

What we also see is that hyperlocalisation is growing, and it's more and more important for people to feel that it's not all about going to a shopping centre but a natural space where it's an extension of work, live, play and also shop. So for us, that is the essence of being part of the community, engaging, evolving and also adding value.

Bisnow: How did you land upon Hammersmith, and what have you learned from operating there so far?

Andersen: We've always worked together with Ikea, and we look to where Ikea wants to be. And of course, in this case, it's a combination of an opportunity arising and then an evident need we have in expanding. In this case, Hammersmith happened to be an ideal opportunity to bring both our Meeting Place concept together with Ikea into a very central part of London. We have for some years had a focus on being in bigger cities.

It's always a combination of a clear need to be close to the right amount of people with an opportunity. And some destinations might be on-market purchases. Some might be off-market.

Bisnow: What attracted you to Brighton, and what was the rationale?

Andersen: First of all, it's a very progressive city. Churchill Square [the shopping centre acquired] has an amazing location close to the Lanes [the city’s trendy shopping district] and to the beach. There are millions of people passing by as visitors. We're also then a part of the community. So for us, this was the perfect location to bring Ikea to Brighton itself, but also for us to enter into a very well-established retail destination with a strong fundamental in terms of a retail offer. We can see that with our Meeting Place concept. We can bring something to the community, and the big area we’ll focus on here is sustainability, to bring the square up to BREEAM Excellent.

There is a food court already, and we think we can also bring more to that. But it's also about the everyday programming, having a lot of visitors passing by or living close by. I'm working on the plans as we speak, so they're not fully ready yet, but for us, this was just a perfect spot for both Ikea and also for our Meeting Place.

Bisnow: Looking at the U.S. and Canada, how has your approach differed there?

Andersen: Every place is unique, and we don't believe that one size fits all, both in terms of the size and the location of the community we’re in. For us, it always needs to start from that. If you look at, for example, Hammersmith, we had an agenda of really creating a community space with a staircase which is now always filled with people sitting there, meeting, sharing a sandwich.

We believe in play as a fundamental focus area. We believe we need to bring a bit more playfulness to the world.

There will always be commonalities, but also, for example, I love the new F&B concept that we’re bringing to San Francisco now in Market Street because it's a platform that means there will be a strong fundamental of plant-based dishes and other options as well. Because we believe that change happens by inspiring people to try new things.

We’ll also have our Nordic cuisine, like soft-serve ice cream, and who wouldn't love having fresh Scandinavian bread?

So I would say that North America, the UK and Canada have their differences, but there are also many similarities, particularly that they have experienced a considerable growth in e-commerce. There are also different paces of adoption. There are many brands both in the UK as well as in the U.S. born in the more digital world but which are also transforming into physical spaces. 

Bisnow: San Francisco has not been open that long, but how are its early days?

Andersen: One of the things that we are super excited about has been the appreciation of the food, and that also gives us a lot of energy and inspiration. We will open the new Saluhall this springtime. It just shows the importance of food in urban locations, with our strong food offer but also bringing in local vendors.

I was also super curious about our coworking concept that we are due to launch in the Bay Area. We started in Stockholm with our first coworking space, but now we are bringing it as a big space on the top, fifth floor of the building. We are doing that together with Industrious. I'm really keen to see how this blends into the community.

Bisnow: Are there any particular elements of the project that really excite you or you have a real personal connection with?

Andersen: I'm always excited about development where we can make a major difference. That is what excites me. And one of those heartwarming moments for me was standing in Hammersmith during construction, then being there again when it was finished and when I could see the difference, for example, on the roof, with the grass for the community. Also, when I saw the staircase that is just, you know, a staircase, but it has a social purpose. It is really about those times when I feel like we're making a true impact and an improvement for people and communities. That is what energises and drives me forward.

These are challenging times, not only in the real estate industry and retailing. It's challenging because of many different reasons. One thing that I have carried with me in my own leadership is the importance of opportunities and to be optimistic because optimism builds resilience when there are challenges or times are tougher, and also the long-term view of things.

We have a North Star where purpose and profit go hand in hand. That's when there's an optimistic mindset and outlook on the world.

Bisnow: How did you get into your current role?

Andersen: I've always been interested in development. When I started at Ikea, I spent most of my time on development in terms of range, starting from people's lives at home and developing a range and products to solve those problems.

Also, I found myself being in a people-centric business, so retail and also commercial real estate really operate on the need to be future-proof.

Our vision and our fundamental belief that purpose goes hand in hand, plus being a value-based company, is something that has been inspiring, guiding me throughout my career. So in many ways, when you look back on your path, it’s not like it’s a coincidence that I spent so many years doing what I did because I have a fundamental belief that it is good business to be a good business.

Bisnow: Give us a bold prediction for the rest of the year.

Andersen: I would say that I think 2024 will continue to be challenging, but I'm optimistic that we will see our business being back at pre-Covid visitor levels because we fundamentally believe people will continue to want to spend time together and need time together, that it's good for people.

What is your weekend routine or favourite weekend activity? 

Andersen: I believe that to be the greatest me, I need to have all the components that make me happy, and a fundamental component for me is my family. So that’s my husband and three children and having time to spend time with them and take long walks together where we have the time to share and be a part of each other's lives. 

At the weekend, I like a morning routine with a long breakfast, reading newspapers and having a nice chat with my family, although now that they are teenagers, it’s us waking them up, not the other way round!